A discussion with Ilana Bet-El

It isn’t possible to evade or even ignore the war in Ukraine: from energy and food prices to the instability of global governance, the fallout is immense, and increasing. The people of Ukraine are suffering the harshest effects, but the surrounding states also feel the war strongly, and in a variety of ways. From waves of Ukrainian immigrants caused by Russia’s aggression to waves of Russians fleeing Putin’s grasp, those living next to the war are far more exposed to its realities than those living further afield.

Ilana Bet-El is joined by two great parliamentarians to discuss these realities: Salome Samadashvili, member of parliament with Lelo for Georgia party and former Ambassador to the EU; and Dovilė Šakalienė, member of parliament for the Social Democrats in Lithuania and a member of its Committee on National Security and Defence.

This hard hitting conversation is about dealing with the immediate impact of the conflict in Lithuania and Georgia, as well as the broader political context — the gaps in reality and politics between east and west in Europe, the difference between being in the EU and NATO, as is the case for Lithuania, and outside it — as is the case for Georgia. More fundamentally, the conversation looks back at mistakes made regarding Russia and European security since the end of the Cold War, and forward to the possibilities of ending the war.

The episode was recorded on the 12th October 2022